Queer in the Classroom

Nov 12

School is a time of searching, of growth. It's a time when a lot of people, young people in particular, are figuring out who they are. Every young person feels alone sometimes, but for queers this feeling is underscored by the undeniable fact that you exist as a minority, often an invisible minority. And yet, and this truly amazing, even closeted queers, even queers who might not yet know that they are queer, have a tendency to find each other. We've got two stories for you today about queers meeting queers in the classroom. These are stories of queers finding each other against all odds and growing up together.

Content Note: This episode is rated as explicit for the occasional use of mature language and some brief, but frank, discussion of sexuality.

In this episode

Intro: 00:00

LB and Keila’s Story: 02:26

Inclusivity/Exclusivity Discussion: 20:13

M and Edward’s Story: 31:30

Announcements: 46:33

Transcript

Weston (00:00):

Hi everybody, Weston here. Welcome back to another episode of Queer Meets Queer. School is a time of searching, of growth. It's a time when a lot of people, young people in particular, are figuring out who they are. Developmentally speaking people grow into their adult identities gradually and at different times. It's just as normal for someone to come into their sexuality at 13 as it is at 23.

Weston (00:29):

For queer people this process of growing and becoming your adult self is often delayed. Queer identities are suppressed, if not overtly discouraged. For a lot of young people being queer hardly even seems like an option. Schools are also not typically places where queer people feel the safest. Being queer in the classroom often means being closeted. Particularly in middle school and high school, it's hard to know how honest you can really be with your classmates or your teachers.

Weston (01:06):

Every young person feels alone sometimes, but for queers this feeling is underscored by the undeniable fact that you exist as a minority, often an invisible minority. And yet, and I find this truly amazing, even closeted queers, even queers who might not yet know that they are queer, have a tendency to find each other. It was incredible how in the five years after graduating high school many of my closest friends came out, one by one. We had formed a queer community even then, before any of us were out, before some of us were even self-aware of our own queer identities.

Weston (01:57):

We've got two stories for you today about queers meeting queers in the classroom. These stories have two things in common. First, they both have at least one person who at the beginning of the relationship wasn't out or wasn't self-aware of their queer identity. Second, they both are friendships between a male bodied person and a female bodied person. First up we hear from LB and Keila.

Justin (02:26):

LB and Keila met in eight grade and became friends in a large part due to LB's relentless persistence. Over the years they've helped each other through trauma, listened to each other give voice to their dreams, and watched each other grow up.

Keila (02:42):

So, uh, me and Lawrence met in eighth grade at Woodlake Middle School. I was a new student. Um, it was my first year there. He had been there since the sixth and seventh grade. We met in Miss M's history class. And I was taking a nap with my head down.

Keila (02:59):

And Lawrence was sitting to my, he was sitting to my right side, I believe, uh, yeah, he was sitting to my right and I popped my head up from my nap and there he was with this big old smile on his face. And his first words to me were like, "You were knocked out, right?" And I just look at him, and I'm already just over it. I look at him and I tell him that basically I'm not looking for no friends.

LB (03:22):

Let me quote you. You said, "Look, I'm not here to make friends. All, I got me and my cousin, and that's all I need."

Nikki (03:29):

(laughs)

Keila (03:32):

No lie, that's exactly what I said. And then I put my head back down. And that is how we-

Weston (03:36):

(laughs)

Keila (03:36):

... that's how we met.

Nikki (03:37):

(laughs)

Weston (03:39):

(laughs) Oh man. What was your school like?

Keila (03:42):

So I don't, so in, like, around 2003 the- the Spurs, the San Antonia Spurs and the LA Lakers-

LB (03:47):

(laughs)

Keila (03:47):

... um, were beefing hard. And it was almost like a gang. And so at our school the tension got so bad that, uh, they banned jerseys.

LB (03:57):

(laughs) I- I realize the hood aspect, like, I say that more for high school, like, and specifically my high school, Judson. Because I remember, uh, there's a story I tell, a true story, when a fight would break out everybody would, you know, they circle around, they're like, "Fight, fight, fight." But at my school they would circle around and everybody links arms.

Nikki (04:16):

(laughs)

LB (04:17):

That way the- the school cops or whatever could not penetrate the circle.

Weston (04:20):

(laughs)

Nikki (04:20):

(laughs)

LB (04:21):

And it would allow people to fight. That was more of an experience for me in high school than it was necessarily in middle school (laughs). Another story I like to tell though, our second meeting. So homeroom was the first time. And then I got a schedule change early in the school year into, uh, the same math class that Keila had, Miss [Saplinsky 00:04:42]. Shout out, she's the reason I got my last wooping from my father.

Weston (04:45):

(laughs)

Nikki (04:45):

(laughs)

LB (04:46):

Um, so I- (laughs) I got a schedule change. Keila was really, truly uninterested in- in being friends with me.

Weston (04:54):

(laughs)

LB (04:54):

And I- I come into the class, class has already started, and the teacher's like, "All right, we got a new student. You know, sit wherever there's an open seat." The chairs were put into, like, pods of four. And Keila had a empty, uh, seat at her- at her pod. And she's looking across the room. And she's like, no.

Weston (05:11):

(laughs)

Nikki (05:11):

(laughs)

LB (05:11):

She's shaking her head like, don't sit here, don't sit here. And I showed up, go straight up, and I sit down with her. And there was a- a student teacher, aid, a- a- a second teacher in there. Um, it was this older black man. He was, had balding hair- blading hair. And me being new didn't know his name. And I was like, "What's that teacher's name?" And she was like, "Mr. Baldwin." Straight up.

Weston (05:34):

(laughs)

Nikki (05:34):

(laughs)

LB (05:34):

Straight face, everything. So I raised my hand and I'm like, "Excuse me, Mr. Baldwin."

Nikki (05:39):

(laughs)

LB (05:42):

Keila lost it and- and that was that (laughs).

Weston (05:43):

(laughs)

LB (05:45):

Miss Saplinsky emailed my teacher and said I was disruptive in class.

Weston (05:48):

(laughs)

Nikki (05:48):

(laughs)

Keila (05:51):

The teacher had to move us because all we did was laugh when we were near each other. They, she separated us.

LB (05:57):

And the only configuration that she found that worked was, we were in the same row, the desks were in rows, she was at the very front and I was at the very back.

Weston (06:05):

(laughs)

Nikki (06:05):

(laughs)

LB (06:07):

Because that way we could not talk, or at least one of us had to, like, it would be clear if we were trying to talk to one another.

Weston (06:14):

Yeah.

Nikki (06:14):

So, I gotta know, how did you- how did you win her over? 'Cause it's clear she really didn't wanna be your friend.

LB (06:18):

(laughs) Honestly- honestly I do not know how, but straight up persistence and- and never accepting no as an answer (laughs).

Nikki (06:26):

(laughs)

Keila (06:28):

I think that was it, too. And if I'm being honest I think, like, I did want friends. I was just so ... Lawrence didn't know this, but that was my fifth middle school, right? Like, so I had went to three different middle schools in the sixth grade, one in the seventh grade, and so by the eighth grade a bitch was tired.

Nikki (06:46):

(laughs)

Weston (06:46):

(laughs)

Keila (06:47):

And so- and so I think I just was like, I was like, man I'm done making friends, I'm don't making friends. But the truth was, it's like, I- I wanted friends. And then Lawrence was so persistent, he's already been that persistent too, like, that hasn't changed, um, he was so persistent that it was like, all right, fine. Like, let's be friends. But we actually weren't friends, we ended up dating. We were boyfriend and girlfriend for- for-

LB (07:10):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Keila (07:11):

... a- a good portion of our eighth grade year.

LB (07:13):

Yeah. That is true. So we dated. That- that was my way in.

Nikki (07:17):

(laughs)

Weston (07:17):

(laughs)

LB (07:17):

Yeah.

Weston (07:20):

What was your, like, romantic relationship like?

LB (07:23):

Literally 13-

Keila (07:26):

Toxic.

Nikki (07:27):

(laughs).

Weston (07:27):

(laughs)

LB (07:27):

13- 13 year old hormonal, you know, undeveloped prefrontal c- cortex, like, kids I think. Um, but we would literally meet up like little thotty teeny-boppers at the club, at the teen clubs.

Keila (07:40):

Yep, yep (laughs).

Weston (07:40):

(laughs)

Nikki (07:40):

(laughs)

LB (07:42):

And so (laughs), uh, we would just- we would just, we would meet up at the clubs. And then at 16 I started driving. And then it was, like, intentional, like, we got to see each other. That's when we, I guess there was some sexual chemistry, and I lost my virginity to Keila, to be fully, uh, for full disclosure (laughs). And, uh, so it was, (laughs) toxic I guess is the word that Keila wants to use. But it was nothing bad.

Keila (08:04):

Okay. [crosstalk 00:08:04] explain what I mean when I say toxic. So the last time me and Lawrence had sex we were 19. So it was a long time ago. Like, what are we, 30 now? We were 19 years old the last time me and him had sex. And so at, like, 18, 19 I think we're trying to figure out our feelings 'cause we know that there's a connection there.

Keila (08:23):

But I think, and- and there was, like, maybe sexual chemistry but I think at, like, 16, 17, 18, 19, I think we didn't know what the fuck it was. And so I think we- we lacked the- we lacked the capacity and the communication, and so we were always, like, arguing. Or, like, every t- time we'd travel together I'd tell- I'd tell people, "Me and Lawrence always have a big argument."

LB (08:52):

Right, right (laughs). Right, right. But I, uh, honestly feel, like, since moving here though, that we finally broke that curse. [crosstalk 00:08:52]

Keila (08:52):

Right, no, that's what I'm saying.

LB (08:53):

Yeah.

Keila (08:53):

It wasn't until you, uh, you moved up here-

LB (08:55):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Keila (08:55):

... where I think we, um, we finally really started meeting each other where we, like, where we were at and just being open and honest. And so we connected when we were young. And so if you, longterm friendships, I believe that all of 'em need a hard reset. Because a lot of times we're still holding that person, um, in- in the past. Like, we're still treating them like that person when we were young and not, like, the person that they are now.

Keila (09:18):

And so, when Lawrence moved up to Portland, um, our friendship had, we had a hard, we had to do a hard reset. And so, like, when I think about the romantic part or, like, the younger parts of our- our relationship I would say it, maybe not toxic, but it was definitely, like, uh, there were some unhealthy patterns that we needed to- to- to change.

LB (09:36):

Right. And I wanna say, something that came up for me earlier, and even now with what you're talking about, I honestly feel like in some ways we- we trauma bonded, in a way. Things were happening, t- traumatic things were happening to us before we, we- we couldn't even register it as such.

Nikki (09:53):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Keila (09:54):

I absolutely think so too. I think that girl that you met that first of class that was, like, "Nah, I don't want no friends," I think she was heartbroken. And I think she was lonely. And I think she was angry. And I think that she was tired of being vulnerable, and being moved up, moved around every single time she connected with people. And so she was trying to save herself from the hurt even though I think she desperately wanted friends.

LB (10:15):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nikki (10:17):

So what has your friendship with LB taught you about yourself?

Keila (10:23):

I think it's taught me to be kinder.

Nikki (10:27):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Keila (10:28):

Like I said, Lawrence has always chosen me. I think our friendship has taught me to give more grace and compassion to the people that love me the most or, you know-

Nikki (10:37):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Keila (10:37):

... that choose me, um, intentionally. I think that Lawrence has taught me, um, what it means to put in the work of a friendship. Like, people are so invested in romantic partnerships that they neglect their friendships and they don't hold them to the same sort of reverence and regard.

Nikki (10:54):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Keila (10:55):

And I think that Lawrence, my relationship with Lawrence has taught me that, like, you invest in your friendships the same way you invest in your romantic ones. He teaches me love, he teaches me kindness, he teaches me patience just by way of our conflicts. And he teaches me forgiveness too. And actually I don't think I've ever even told him that.

Nikki (11:12):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

LB (11:14):

No. But- but every time you say, "He chooses me," literally I have to hold back tears because I- I don't know if it was ... Oh goddam it. I don't know if it was Father's Day, or your birthday, or my birthday, it was something that happened and- and you had said that. That was the realization that, you know, of all the- the men in your life, or the- the- the male figures in your life I'm the, was the only one that has always chosen you or has ... And- and it just- it just, it- it brings me to tears every time. So.

Keila (11:43):

It was actually your birthday, Lawrence. Unfortunately I come from a history of a lot of, like, a lot of emotional abuse, a lot of physical abuse, sexual abuse. And unfortunately it's been by, at the hands of the men who have been closest to me. And when I think about, like, um, my relationship to black men, uh, and the black men that have shown up in my life, Lawrence has been someone who has always respected and loved me, and valued me in ways that I don't think I got when I was a child. And I called him on, I think, his 29th birthday and I thanked him for that.

Nikki (12:18):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

LB (12:18):

Uh, but I am crying now. These are real tears [crosstalk 00:12:19]

Weston (12:18):

(laughs)

Nikki (12:18):

(laughs)

Weston (12:18):

LB, do you wanna talk about something that you've, like, learned from your friendship with Keila?

LB (12:30):

So, there was a- a- a thing that happened and, uh, Keila- Keila was like- was like, you know, "This is the first time that you experienced true solidarity from people." And like, in a true reflection I know that I experienced that from her. Like, just, I'm a very independent person, and don't like to depend on nobody.

LB (12:49):

And, uh, but I, uh, of course in the back of my mind I just want somebody to, uh, to stand up for me, or to care, or ... And, uh, Keila's always done that. And I think that's, uh, vulnerability, and I learned that from her. And I'm able to- to experience that feeling with her. And I think that f- for the longest time it was only because of her. My god, I don't know if I can get through it all.

Weston (13:16):

(laughs)

LB (13:17):

But, uh, yeah. I would say solidarity and vulnerability. Yeah, just true vulnerability.

Weston (13:23):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

LB (13:25):

True hard work. I think that she's always, like, pushed me to be better and, um, encouraged me to be b- better. And it's just- it's just what I appreciate, and what I love-

Weston (13:34):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

LB (13:34):

... what I know. And, uh, I'm just grateful for that.

Nikki (13:39):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

LB (13:40):

Also, and yeah, I do cry. Uh, like when she got accepted to, uh, her PhD program I was boohoo crying.

Weston (13:46):

Yeah.

LB (13:46):

And the reason, the-

Weston (13:48):

That's a huge deal.

Nikki (13:49):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

LB (13:49):

It was a huge deal.

Weston (13:49):

Yeah.

LB (13:49):

But honestly, so we were ... Uh, there's just so much that we glossed over but, like, when I say that we trauma bonded, we just, there were so many major moments and major decisions that were made with each other. I went into the Navy. But we actually were going, we- we went through the physical and the- the pre-process together. And then this one's allergic to bee's and- and got disqualified (laughs)-

Weston (14:12):

(laughs)

Nikki (14:12):

(laughs)

LB (14:15):

... and- and backed out. But, like, college, like, we talked about our college, like we met at 13 and then we went through high school and we talked about colleges. And then we talked about the military. Then we talked about, you know, grad programs. And then we talked about ... But when we were in, um, middle school Keila s- said that, uh, they wanted to be a- a sex doctor. And- and I think it's wild because at the time we thought that they were gonna be some OB/GYN. And then they got into undergrad and they were, uh, a biology major. And they failed organic chemistry 15 times-

Weston (14:45):

(laughs)

Nikki (14:45):

(laughs)

LB (14:46):

... and decided that, uh, that was not for them anymore (laughs).

Keila (14:48):

(laughs)

Nikki (14:48):

(laughs)

LB (14:51):

And then they changed to sociology.

Nikki (14:54):

(laughs)

LB (14:54):

Um, but anyways, they said, "I wanna be a sex doctor." And then they got into, you know, this gender, women's sexuality studies. And it was them becoming, it was them literally doing exactly what they said at 13 when we didn't know shit.

Weston (15:10):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

LB (15:11):

And it was just great to have been able to witness that-

Weston (15:14):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

LB (15:14):

... like, witness that work, and witness that struggle, and witness that, you know, tenacity to know, you know, what they went through into where they're going. And so I revel in that because that's my best friend. And I feel like I was there, you know, um, I just was able to witness it so I knew what it takes. And- and I don't- I don't, I- I think it's something to be celebrated.

Keila (15:38):

You know, funny you should bring that up, 'cause I was- I was thinking of that too. So when I got accepted into the program, um, I'll never forget, it was on Valentine's Day and I was having a hard day. And I was listening to Tupac's Keep Ya Head Up.

Nikki (15:49):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Keila (15:49):

Uh, and I got the email. Maybe the, he's, like, the second, maybe, person I called. And he- he starts crying. And, uh, he's the- he's the only one, um, out of all the people that I called that cried. Not to say that everybody else wasn't excited for me, but Lawrence is, it's almost like he gave me more permission, because he cried for me he gave me more permission to be- to be more proud of myself. It was like I was excited but I hadn't really thought about the work, you know, and the manifesting that it took to come here, you know?

Nikki (16:18):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Keila (16:19):

W- when me and Lawrence were 13, you know, we were write, I still have letters that we wrote to each other. Lawrence doesn't have his, but I still have our letters.

Weston (16:25):

(laughs)

Nikki (16:25):

(laughs)

Keila (16:25):

And we, um, we- we- we both said we wanted to be lawyers. And we were gonna call it, we were gonna be married, and so we were gonna call it Benet and Benet Law Firm.

Nikki (16:33):

(laughs)

Weston (16:33):

(laughs)

Keila (16:34):

And so, you know, we- (laughs) we would sit, we would talk about, like, these dreams of ours. And I did tell, he was one of the few people that I told that I wanted to be a sex doctor. And I didn't even make that connection when I got accepted into the program. He made it.

Keila (16:47):

And I was just thinking about the power of what it means to speak, like, to- to speak, of the power of your words. And I was, like, you know, thinking about him reminding me of that. It's like, I- I really did, like, me and him did talk about our hopes and our dreams together, and what we wanted. We, you know, not only in our letters but we would spend ours on the phone talking about, like, what we wanted our future to look like.

Keila (17:10):

Um, and so when he, like, you know, him crying for me, um, I, it's, even in that moment, or even now when I look back at that it's just something that I'm like, this- this guy, Lawrence has always been one of my biggest cheerleaders. My bachelor's, my master's, um, I know when I get my PhD, like, he'll be in there, like, arms in the fucking air-

Weston (17:28):

(laughs)

Nikki (17:28):

(laughs)

Keila (17:28):

... like, just my biggest cheerleader.

LB (17:29):

Woo woo woo.

Weston (17:29):

(laughs)

Nikki (17:29):

(laughs)

LB (17:29):

Okay Keila, I have three questions but I'm gonna let you choose which one you want, all right?

Keila (17:39):

Okay.

LB (17:39):

One is ... Oh shoot.

Weston (17:39):

(laughs)

LB (17:43):

All right. One is, uh, if you could have something of mine what would it be and why? Question number two is, what's something you'd like me to forgive you for that I'm not aware of.

Keila (17:56):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

LB (17:57):

And then question number three is, when was the last time I pissed you off and how do you feel about it now?

Nikki (18:03):

(laughs) Those are good questions.

Weston (18:04):

They are.

Keila (18:09):

Um, okay. Uh. I- I think the second one, something I'd like you to forgive me for.

LB (18:15):

Okay.

Keila (18:16):

Um. I think that I- I, like, I know we've talked about it before and then we said we were gonna talk, like, we were gonna work on it and be different. And I think we have. But one of the things that I wish we did more was, like, uh, I- I can see how affectionate you are, and I know we talked about this, I can see how affectionate you are with your, um, with other- with other, like, friends in your life. And I wish that, uh, um, I think that I was, and I'm contending with this shit now, but I think that I'm passive aggressive and I think I have a smart ass mouth.

Weston (18:55):

(laughs)

LB (18:55):

(laughs)

Keila (18:55):

And I think- and I think that, um, because you've been around the longest I think you've had to bear the brunt of that, uh, a lot, or a lot of it. Like, I think that I can be mean. And, um, and it's because I don't know how to, uh, I'm learning, I didn't, because I didn't know how, I'll say past tense 'cause I don't do it anymore, but I didn't know how to talk about my, like, my own hurt feelings.

Keila (19:15):

And so I- I think I, well I would like you to forgive me for, um, all the times I- I- I disrespected you publicly, um, all the times I- I snapped at you and you didn't know why, um, all the times where you needed grace and I- and I didn't give it to you. Um, I think- I think that happened so many times that, um, I can't even pinpoint it, but I can think of multiple trips that we've taken, you know, um, where I was, I just wasn't nice. And I just want, um, I want forgiveness for that.

LB (19:59):

You're forgiven baby, I love you. And I appreciate that. I appreciate the words, and I appreciate the honesty, and I forgive you.

Weston (20:13):

LB and Keila's story got us thinking about boundaries and divides within the queer community. The queer community is often segregated along identity lines with members of the LGBTQ community mostly sticking with their own kind. This got us thinking a lot about inclusion and exclusion in the queer community.

Weston (20:38):

Um, I wanna, this is, I think, the most difficult thing to talk about, um, as part of this episode. But it's just something that I've been thinking about a lot for the last, like, year honestly, is sort of, and I really only have an experience of this in Portland 'cause Portland's the only queer community I've ever been a part of, but this, like, really segregated queer community that is in Portland. And it's segregated across so many different lines. Uh, and those lines can get really minute. They can be down to, like, whether or not you have body hair or not.

Seth (21:11):

Yeah.

Justin (21:11):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth (21:11):

It's cliques.

Justin (21:11):

Uh-huh (affirmative).

Weston (21:13):

And it is, it's very, it can be very cliquey. And, um, two of the relationship stories we're telling in this episode are relationships between people who are- are bridging divides between, like, different queer factions.

Seth (21:25):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Weston (21:26):

And I think that really cool.

Justin (21:29):

Well, it's funny that you bring this up, actually, uh, well, I mean, this might be just a little Portland-centric. I don't know how much this will, uh, translate to other areas. But I often talk with my friends about this idea of inclusivity versus exclusivity.

Seth (21:40):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Weston (21:40):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Justin (21:40):

And I think that in the area, like in this area folks consider themselves very progressive. And so it's easy to be like, oh I'm so inclusive. But then you spend any time around, like, the queer community and you quickly realize, absolutely not. It's the exact opposite. It's the most exclusive area actually I think I've seen in, anywhere.

Justin (21:59):

You know, like, in California I could be around my- my straight friends, my bi friends, my pan friends. Like, we could do all these different things together. But out here, I don't know, again I- I don't know if it's a Portland thing or whatever, but it's- it does seem to be much more exclusive and divided in that way.

Nikki (22:15):

It's just, to me this is, like, such a white people thing. Like, I don't-

Justin (22:18):

(laughs)

Nikki (22:18):

I, uh, the queer community that I come from in the Midwest is one very much of, like, we're all we got.

Justin (22:24):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nikki (22:25):

I don't give a shit, like if you're not straight and cis, or even if, like, you're just not straight (laughs), you know?

Justin (22:31):

(laughs)

Seth (22:36):

If you are one thing, one step away-

Nikki (22:36):

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Seth (22:36):

... like, perfect.

Nikki (22:36):

It's- it's just like, if you are not a- if you are not a cisgender straight person you are here. Like, you're in it. There's one gay bar in an alley.

Justin (22:43):

(laughs)

Nikki (22:43):

Like, that's, it- it, seriously.

Justin (22:45):

Right.

Nikki (22:45):

That's- that's the only thing we had.

Seth (22:46):

Yeah.

Nikki (22:47):

And then you come here and you're like, look at all these opportunities that have opened for me. But what happens, it's almost like a class system, kind of thing. And- and it's super frustrating because Portland out, to an outsider's perspective Portland is, like, this melting pot of everyone has a bunch of different friends from a bunch of diff- different places. And it's just not true. If you branch out of your group a lot of times you're fucking shamed for it. And that is shitty.

Seth (23:15):

Yeah.

Justin (23:15):

I think you nail on the head. Like, I, like, also, like, think about this concept of a- a homogeneous culture. You know, you look at the demographics of this area and it's very homogeneous. And I think that that's what breads these things where it's like, I'm expecting, growing ...

Justin (23:27):

If I'm a person who lived here my entire life I grew up in an area where it's like, everyone on my street probably looks just like me and probably came from the same socioeconomic background. And so when you see anything that deviates from that it's like, oh my gosh, now I have to get back to my paradigm. You know? And I think that that's what, kinda, is one of the catalysts that creates these- these boundaries.

Nikki (23:44):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth (23:44):

Yeah.

Weston (23:46):

When I was in high school I had a group of queer friends. And neither one- n- neither, none of us where out, really, at that point. But after we left high school and, kind of, became what we, each of us sort of one by one came out and it turned out we were all just queer, and together-

Justin (24:01):

(laughs)

Seth (24:01):

My friends too.

Nikki (24:01):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Weston (24:01):

... and we had found each other in high school, you know?

Seth (24:03):

Yeah, same.

Weston (24:04):

And I had a really, like, I- I had- I- I had really, really meaningful and valuable friendships with, um, with, like, queer women. And in Portland I do not.

Seth (24:17):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Weston (24:17):

And there's not only that but, like, meeting queer women in Portland is not something that just happens. Like, I- I don't, I- I'm trying to understand why I can't go to a queer space anywhere in Portland and, like, find more than, like, one or two queer women there.

Seth (24:32):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nikki (24:33):

See, I have that exact same experience but as a queer female bodied person.

Weston (24:38):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nikki (24:39):

I- I love CC Slaughters.

Weston (24:41):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nikki (24:42):

I love going there, I love dancing, I love drag so much. And I don't go there anymore.

Weston (24:48):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nikki (24:48):

And it's because I walk in-

Justin (24:50):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nikki (24:50):

... and queer male presenting, male identifying people are so mean to me in there.

Justin (24:58):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Weston (24:58):

There's- there's an unbelievable amount of misogyny in the queer male-

Justin (25:01):

It's incredible, it's intense.

Seth (25:02):

That's so upsetting.

Justin (25:02):

Yeah.

Weston (25:02):

It's so upsetting.

Nikki (25:02):

It's- it's ridiculous.

Weston (25:04):

In some ways it's like, I've heard- I've heard some critical commentators call, like, queer men, like, the perfect misogynistic culture.

Nikki (25:10):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Weston (25:11):

Because they don't, I mean-

Nikki (25:13):

And it's, uh, and it's all ... God, there's, like, so much to unpack with that.

Seth (25:16):

(laughs)

Justin (25:16):

(laughs)

Weston (25:16):

Yeah.

Nikki (25:16):

Because then you talk about, like, femininity within queer men and how it's presented, and like-

Justin (25:24):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth (25:25):

Yeah.

Nikki (25:27):

... oh my god. And then culture stealing.

Justin (25:27):

Appropriation times a million. Yeah.

Nikki (25:27):

Exactly.

Justin (25:27):

Exactly.

Seth (25:27):

Seriously.

Justin (25:27):

It's unreal.

Nikki (25:27):

God.

Weston (25:33):

We were just talking about, sort of like, the lack of inclusion particularly of, like, female bodied or- or- or women, female, women, queer women-

Justin (25:41):

Representing.

Nikki (25:41):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Justin (25:41):

Right, yeah.

Weston (25:42):

... um, in queer spaces in Portland.

Nikki (25:44):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Weston (25:44):

And how they're often not welcome. But I find that, like, these two relationships that are between, like, a- a- a queer male bodied person and a queer female bodied person, there's so much strength in their relationship. And I have also felt that myself with, like, a really good friend I have from- from college who is, um, a self-identifying dyke.

Justin (26:08):

(laughs)

Weston (26:08):

And, um-

Justin (26:11):

Gotta reclaim I, gotta reclaim it, yeah.

Nikki (26:12):

Yeah.

Weston (26:12):

I just- I just miss it. I just, like, I miss her and I miss having that kind of relationship in my life. And listening to these stories just made me realize, like, what a really important and, like, special bond that is to have, sort of like, queer solidarity between people-

Nikki (26:29):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Justin (26:29):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Weston (26:29):

... who don't actually share, like, identical queer identities (laughs).

Justin (26:31):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth (26:32):

Yeah. WLW, MLM-

Weston (26:32):

Yeah.

Seth (26:34):

... solidarity.

Nikki (26:35):

Yeah. I- I mean, my- my brother's queer and as soon as he came out it was like, best friends.

Seth (26:41):

That's exactly what happened with my sister.

Justin (26:42):

Right, right.

Weston (26:42):

Yeah.

Seth (26:42):

Yeah.

Nikki (26:43):

It's, like, and so, the- the male bodied or male identifying people I know, some of those relationships are, like, the- the strongest or they're the longest.

Justin (26:53):

It's so funny you say that because, like, what I was thinking is, this is, like, a topic that I've thought of, um, quite often actually, is that the big difference with, like, queer people versus, like, other disenfranchised populations is that we're not necessarily connected with, like, our family, right?

Justin (27:08):

So if talk about race it's like, okay my entire family experiences this same type of experience. But as queer people we might be the only person, we might be siloed in that- siloed in that way. And I think that that's part of what, kind of, propagates this division that happens, is that we weren't embedded with, like, you know-

Weston (27:24):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Justin (27:24):

... yes, I am a black person but I know that through just being a black person in my own family that, like-

Nikki (27:29):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Justin (27:30):

... we all experience this differently. You know?

Nikki (27:32):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Justin (27:32):

And we can connect, and we can, you know, kind of, get that broader picture of things within that context. But queer people don't necessarily have that.

Nikki (27:39):

Yeah.

Weston (27:40):

Yeah.

Nikki (27:40):

And, like, sexuality and identity is not always something that you can just see right away. And, uh, I think that a lot of times, like, I'll have a friend who ... I- I had a friend not too long ago who told me she was queer. And I didn't know it at all. And I was, like, so happy because I know- I know, like, on a certain level we're going to understand each other-

Seth (28:05):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nikki (28:05):

... in this really deep rooted way that, like, you- you can't see that. You know? Like, it- it- it's just, yeah. I don't know. That was just a thought.

Seth (28:16):

No, no, uh-

Justin (28:16):

No, I love that, yeah.

Seth (28:17):

It's one of those things where you're just like, oh I vibe that but-

Nikki (28:19):

Yeah.

Justin (28:20):

Yeah.

Seth (28:20):

... I don't have actually have any word for it.

Nikki (28:21):

Yeah, I know. Yeah.

Seth (28:21):

It's just like, yeah, yeah.

Nikki (28:21):

This is so true.

Weston (28:24):

And also, I know that when I came to Portland, I am definitely the only, like, queer person in my family, um, and I didn't really have a queer community anywhere in the world until I came to Portland. And when I finally, sort of, like, found queer friends who were, like, primarily, um, like, male bodied, male identifying gay guys in Portland I was so hungry to share experiences and space with people who understood me, because I'd never, I had never been in a household before where I could walk in and every single person there-

Justin (29:04):

Right, is queer. Right, right.

Seth (29:04):

Yeah.

Nikki (29:04):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Weston (29:04):

... knew who I was without even me having to, like, explain it to them. And that was such, like, a powerful, healing experience for me. And now, like, five years later after entering the, you know, Portland, like, queer community and realizing that, like, everything we've been saying, like, there's so much segregation, and there's so much division, and there's so much misogyny. And, like-

Seth (29:26):

Exclusivity. [crosstalk 00:29:27]

Weston (29:26):

... there's not, there's exclusivity. There's not inclusivity. And, um, there's so much about, like, this group of friends that I have who I love so, so much and who, like, brought so much joy and love into my life but is also, like, limiting.

Nikki (29:44):

So I think that's-

Weston (29:45):

And-

Nikki (29:45):

Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Weston (29:46):

No, go ahead.

Nikki (29:46):

I think that- I think that is the trap that we have to be very mindful of.

Justin (29:52):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nikki (29:52):

When we come from a place that is very limiting for us, and our identities, and our sexualities and we move to a place that is very opening, and accepting, and welcoming, naturally you are going to gravitate toward the people who are most similar to you-

Justin (30:07):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nikki (30:07):

... which makes total sense-

Justin (30:09):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nikki (30:09):

... 'cause that is what you feel safest with. But you have to not get comfortable with that. And you have to be willing to, okay, you know, you have to identify when you feel safe and when you are ready to start, like, diversifying your friend group.

Justin (30:24):

Expanding.

Seth (30:24):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nikki (30:24):

Because I, like, I totally understand you can come here, it's very overwhelming. You gravitate toward your safety people. You build up those relationships. You discover yourself. But you have to progress that further.

Seth (30:34):

Yeah. You- you've gotta-

Justin (30:35):

That is the lesson.

Nikki (30:36):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Justin (30:36):

That is the lesson.

Nikki (30:37):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Justin (30:37):

Yeah.

Seth (30:38):

Yeah. And, like, you- you've gotta really be willing to look inward and confront your own biases with that.

Nikki (30:42):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Weston (30:42):

Yeah ... LB and Keila are an example of the strength and power of relationships that bridge these gaps. When we hear from Edward and M in our next story we'll see another example of queer solidarity and love between two people who don't share the same queer identities.

Weston (31:07):

A note about this story, we recorded it in a, sort of, busy park where there were a lot of people playing with their dogs. And so you can hear the tinkle of, like, collars running past us. And you can hear owners shouting commands to their dogs. And, um, it's all pretty cute if you ask me.

Nikki (31:30):

M and E met in their freshman college chemistry class and became inseparable. Throughout their friendship M grew into her queerness, they moved in together, ran through the gauntlet of college, and then entered post college life.

Edward (31:56):

Um.

M (31:58):

He just, like, asked me to be his partner.

Edward (31:59):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M (32:00):

And I remember the first day, like, I, like, came to Reed so, like, not confrontational at all. And so, like, we're in lab, in chemistry lab. And he's, like, asking this person like, "Can you move your stuff?" Like, we're working here.

Nikki (32:13):

(laughs)

M (32:14):

And I was like, oh my god. Who is this person? Like, they are so confrontational (laughs).

Edward (32:18):

(laughs)

M (32:18):

Like, oh my god.

Edward (32:20):

Yeah.

M (32:22):

I was, like, scared almost (laughs).

Edward (32:22):

That was my first impression (laughs).

M (32:24):

But it was great, yeah. So we were in every class together. And he asked me to be his, um, lab partner.

Weston (32:29):

You were in every class together?

M (32:31):

(laughs)

Edward (32:31):

I mean, it was just, like, intro classes.

M (32:34):

Yeah.

Edward (32:34):

So.

M (32:34):

But, like, we also were in each lab component as well.

Edward (32:36):

I know each, like, section.

M (32:38):

And conference, section.

Nikki (32:39):

Wow.

M (32:39):

So it was, like-

Nikki (32:39):

What are the odds?

M (32:39):

Yeah.

Edward (32:43):

I asked her, I'm like, "Do you think we would have been friends-"

M (32:44):

(laughs)

Edward (32:44):

"... if we didn't have, like, every section?" But, we have other similarities-

M (32:49):

Yeah.

Edward (32:49):

... and interests, so.

M (32:52):

But yeah, it was, like, a blessing.

Weston (32:52):

So it started with chemistry.

M (32:54):

Yeah.

Edward (32:59):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M (32:59):

(laughs)

Edward (32:59):

Naturally.

Weston (33:01):

What next? Yeah. (laughs)

Nikki (33:01):

Ah, jokes (laughs).

M (33:01):

What next? We had biology and humanities together.

Edward (33:04):

(laughs) Yeah. We- we were at the, had bio lab at the same time-

M (33:07):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Edward (33:10):

... but she was in the other room.

M (33:10):

Yeah, that's true.

Edward (33:11):

But I would, like, come over all the time and, like-

M (33:11):

Yeah. And we'd, like, eat snacks together.

Edward (33:12):

Yeah (laughs).

M (33:16):

I feel like we just, like, hit it off. Like, I feel like I met him and I was like, this guy just gets it (laughs).

Edward (33:23):

Yeah. I just feel like we have similar, like, interests and values.

M (33:29):

Yeah. I was, like, really into trees and, like, the outdoors my freshman year.

Edward (33:33):

Yeah.

M (33:33):

Which I'm not now.

Edward (33:34):

Not anymore (laughs).

M (33:35):

(laughs) At all. But, like, my freshman year that's what I, like, thought I was really into.

Edward (33:39):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M (33:39):

Like, coming from Ohio, moving to Oregon so, and, like, Edward is, like, a plant genius.

Edward (33:45):

(laughs) Yeah. I've never changed. I've-

M (33:48):

(laughs) Yeah.

Edward (33:51):

Since the day I was born I've always been obsessed with plants, but yeah. Miriam has all, had all these phases.

M (33:57):

Yeah.

Nikki (33:58):

Who initiated the first, like, outside of class let's do something not school related?

M (34:04):

Edward was like, you, I don't know if you remember this-

Edward (34:06):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M (34:06):

... but he was like, "I'm baking chocolate chip cookies. Do you wanna come over?" And I was like, "That's kinda weird, but maybe." (laughs)

Edward (34:16):

(laughs) Did you come over with Emma?

M (34:17):

I did.

Edward (34:17):

Yeah.

M (34:18):

Like, so I had, like, said like, "Oh, maybe." And then I was, like, telling my other friends I was like, "Oh, what should we do tonight?" Like, I have nothing to do. And they were like, uh, and I was like, "Someone, like, invited me over to make chocolate chip cookies. Like (laughs) I guess we could do that."

Edward (34:30):

(laughs)

Nikki (34:30):

(laughs)

M (34:32):

Like, obviously my second choice, honestly (laughs).

Edward (34:34):

Obviously.

M (34:35):

We ended up going to-

Edward (34:37):

Chocolate chip cookies are her favorite [crosstalk 00:34:39]

M (34:38):

They are now, because of him.

Edward (34:40):

They weren't before?

Nikki (34:41):

Wow. Love that.

M (34:41):

No.

Edward (34:41):

Oh.

Nikki (34:41):

(laughs)

Edward (34:41):

Wow.

M (34:44):

But your chocolate chip cookies are so good.

Edward (34:46):

I didn't know that.

M (34:47):

Yeah.

Edward (34:48):

Uh, freshman year I was really into baking.

M (34:52):

Yeah.

Edward (34:52):

And I, like, baked something every week.

M (35:00):

And I think we were both just, like, kind of ridiculous.

Edward (35:00):

Yeah (laughs).

M (35:00):

Like, I feel like.

Edward (35:00):

That's the main thing.

M (35:00):

(laughs) Yeah.

Nikki (35:00):

(laughs)

M (35:00):

We just spend a lot of time together.

Edward (35:02):

And then we lived together junior and senior year.

M (35:04):

Yeah.

Edward (35:04):

Like, for real (laughs).

M (35:07):

And I feel like living together brought us closer together.

Edward (35:09):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M (35:09):

We, like, went on a road trip after college, like down to California and then also back up from Phoenix, two separate road trips.

Edward (35:18):

Yeah.

M (35:19):

And, like, I feel like if I were with anyone else on that road trip, like, we spent, like, what, 8 to 12 days-

Edward (35:24):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M (35:25):

... like, constantly with each other in a small space, I would have been so annoyed with anyone else (laughs).

Edward (35:28):

Yeah. All the camping and driving together.

M (35:28):

Yeah.

Edward (35:28):

And, you were a little annoyed.

M (35:33):

Yeah, that's true (laughs).

Edward (35:34):

Not as much as with other people.

Nikki (35:37):

Call out (laughs).

M (35:38):

I was annoyed with how much he talked about plants.

Weston (35:40):

(laughs)

Edward (35:40):

Yeah.

M (35:40):

I was like, I literally can't-

Edward (35:41):

At the end (laughs)-

M (35:42):

... hear anything about plants anymore. Like, shut up (laughs).

Nikki (35:44):

(laughs)

Weston (35:44):

(laughs)

Edward (35:50):

I was like, oh my god, drama, I can't believe. She hates plants (laughs). We're an old married couple.

M (35:56):

Yeah. We are an old married couple (laughs).

Nikki (35:57):

(laughs)

Weston (35:59):

(laughs) I'm curious what the queer community at Reed was like.

M (36:01):

That's a good question (laughs) we probably don't know the answer to.

Edward (36:04):

(laughs) Yeah. I feel like we were, kind of-

M (36:08):

Well I, like, wasn't out until maybe junior year-

Edward (36:12):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M (36:12):

... or sophomore year. And so, like, when we became friends it was, like, Edward's just friends with another straight girl, I guess (laughs).

Edward (36:18):

Yeah. I was like, why are all my friends straight? But then-

M (36:19):

Yeah. He was, like, upset freshman year. He was like, "All my friends are straight. Like, it's really-" (laughs)

Edward (36:24):

(laughs)

M (36:26):

And then steadily, like, we realized that, like, all of them-

Edward (36:28):

Yeah. One by one (laughs).

M (36:29):

... one by one (laughs), it was like, oh none of us are straight anymore.

Weston (36:32):

(laughs)

M (36:33):

Oh my god. Literally, like, so many of my ... Well not so many, like, maybe, like, three of my gay men friends would, like, see Edward and be like, "So can you hook that up?" (laughs)

Nikki (36:41):

(laughs)

M (36:43):

I'd be like, "I'm not his keeper. Like, I don't know." (laughs)

Weston (36:45):

(laughs)

Nikki (36:45):

(laughs)

M (36:48):

I would just be like, "Oh, what do you think of this person?" And he'd, like, know exactly what I was getting at.

Weston (36:53):

(laughs)

Edward (36:53):

Yeah.

Nikki (36:55):

Oh.

Edward (36:55):

I just know.

Nikki (36:55):

(laughs)

M (36:58):

(laughs) He, like, knows exactly when I'm, like, trying to get at something-

Edward (37:01):

Yeah.

M (37:01):

... and I, like, think I'm being all sneaky.

Nikki (37:03):

So how do you feel like your, how you met and where you met shaped who you are today?

M (37:08):

Just, like, going through college together I feel like-

Edward (37:11):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M (37:11):

... is, it's, like, such a transformative experience. At least it was for me, like, coming to terms with myself and, like, just, like, knowing more about myself. And I feel like Edward was, like, there for a lot of that and helped me grow for a lot of that as well. I feel like I wouldn't be, like, as, like, open with my feelings if it weren't for Edward.

Edward (37:33):

Me too.

M (37:33):

(laughs)

Nikki (37:33):

(laughs)

Edward (37:33):

It's just like, I wouldn't be as open about who I am.

M (37:37):

I don't know. We pushed each other-

Edward (37:38):

Yeah.

M (37:38):

... and, like, were there for each other. And I feel like it, like, made us, like, more supportive. And, like, we, like, proved to each other that we could, like, support each other through-

Edward (37:46):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M (37:46):

... like, hard things. And it's not even just, like, school, just, like, personal things that happened during college too. Breakups, friend breakup-

Edward (37:53):

Yeah. I feel like just going through hardship is how-

M (37:55):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Edward (37:56):

... you really bond-

M (38:00):

Yeah.

Edward (38:00):

... and grow together, so.

M (38:02):

Yeah.

Edward (38:02):

(laughs)

Weston (38:02):

So, do you have a favorite thing about your relationship with each other?

M (38:05):

I don't know. We just have fun (laughs).

Edward (38:08):

Yeah. I think that's the main thing. Like, having fun, like-

M (38:08):

Yeah.

Edward (38:13):

... being ridiculous-

M (38:13):

Yeah.

Edward (38:13):

... dressing up-

M (38:15):

Yeah.

Nikki (38:16):

(laughs)

Edward (38:16):

... matching (laughs).

M (38:16):

We, yeah, we love, like, matching. Like, we're both wearing the same swim trunks just different colors.

Weston (38:21):

(laughs)

M (38:21):

These are actually [crosstalk 00:38:22] (laughs)

Nikki (38:22):

I love that.

M (38:23):

Yeah (laughs).

Weston (38:24):

I love it, too. [crosstalk 00:38:25] I actually, I've been admiring that shirt this entire time. I love it.

Nikki (38:26):

Oh my god.

Weston (38:29):

It would look excellent on both of you.

Nikki (38:30):

Yeah.

Weston (38:30):

I'm imagining it on Miriam now.

Edward (38:31):

(laughs)

M (38:32):

(laughs)

Weston (38:32):

And I'm just like, yep, that's awesome.

Nikki (38:33):

Yeah.

M (38:33):

I actually bought this shirt because I wanted to, like, I was going through, like, my first, like, queer phase of, like, changing my hair and body. And I, like, saw a picture of Timothée Chalamet in, like, a floral shirt.

Edward (38:43):

(laughs)

M (38:43):

And I was like, I need that. So I, like, literally went to a hair stylist, asked for a Timothée Chalamet haircut, like showed a picture of Timothée Chalamet.

Nikki (38:49):

(laughs)

Weston (38:49):

(laughs)

M (38:51):

It was, like, it was horrible. And I was-

Edward (38:53):

It was a horrible haircut (laughs).

M (38:55):

(laughs) It was so bad.

Edward (38:56):

[crosstalk 00:38:56] hair.

Nikki (38:56):

Oh my god.

Edward (38:56):

But it was so funny.

Weston (38:56):

(laughs)

M (39:00):

It was, like, the worst, like, two years of my life, honestly (laughs), when that haircut-

Edward (39:02):

There were a series.

M (39:05):

'Cause I kept getting it, too (laughs).

Edward (39:08):

There were a series of different haircuts.

M (39:10):

Yeah, there were.

Edward (39:10):

There were.

Nikki (39:10):

(laughs)

M (39:10):

I, like, once let this woman give me a haircut 'cause she looked like Kristen Stewart and I was, like, really into Kristen Stewart (laughs).

Edward (39:18):

(laughs)

Weston (39:18):

(laughs)

M (39:18):

And I was just like, "Yeah. Do you whatever you want." And she was like, "I'm thinking, like, Fleetwood Mac." And I'm like, I don't know who Fleetwood Mac is (laughs). I'm like, "Yeah. Do it." And I had, like, the worst haircut of my life.

Edward (39:27):

Yeah (laughs).

Weston (39:27):

(laughs)

M (39:27):

Like, it was so bad (laughs).

Edward (39:31):

In what ways do you feel we've grow apart in this past year of not living together (laughs).

M (39:36):

Oh. That's a good one.

Nikki (39:38):

Oh, yeah.

M (39:39):

I feel like our base friendship is just, like, understanding and loving each other.

Edward (39:44):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M (39:44):

And, like, we're always be there for each other. I think, like, where we grew apart is just, like, our interests are just different. Like, I don't, like, you love plants and I love that you love plants.

Edward (39:54):

(laughs)

M (39:54):

But, like-

Edward (39:54):

Thank you.

M (39:58):

... I feel like, you know, I don't know what I wanna do with my life, but I feel like ... And you, like, also will say you don't know what to do with your life.

Edward (40:03):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M (40:04):

But, like, you have an idea of, like, what you like and, like-

Edward (40:06):

Yeah.

M (40:06):

... your passions. And, like, I just don't have that. And I feel like I'm interested in just, like, random things. So like, I feel like our interests aren't really aligned-

Edward (40:15):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah.

M (40:15):

... the way they used to be. um, and, like, our experiences. But, like, I feel like there's always just, like, that base, like, he's there for me.

Edward (40:24):

Yeah.

M (40:25):

And it's not like we ever have something, like, it's not like we ever run out of things to talk about.

Edward (40:29):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). That's true.

M (40:31):

Yeah.

Edward (40:31):

Like, in college, like, we were in classes together-

M (40:34):

Had, like, all those things together.

Edward (40:36):

... and everything was, like, the same. But we can still be friends even though we're not (laughs)-

M (40:39):

(laughs) Experience the same-

Edward (40:39):

... the exact same person.

M (40:43):

Yeah (laughs). It's better for us.

Edward (40:43):

Yeah.

M (40:45):

My next question was, when do you feel most secure in our friendship?

Edward (40:50):

Probably just, like, talking and, like, just having fun and being ridiculous. And also just, like, in the silences and just, like, being around each other.

M (41:03):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Edward (41:04):

And just really feeling each other's presence 'cause I think we both calm each other down and know that the other person is there to support us, which is, can be nice to have.

M (41:17):

Yeah, without judgment.

Edward (41:20):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M (41:21):

Just, like, a side note, we just went on a backpacking trip after I had a breakup. And I, like, wasn't at the point where I could stop crying myself to sleep. (laughs) So, like, I was, like, in this tent with Edward. I was just, like, crying myself to sleep. And he was just, like, padding me. I was like, yeah, I feel very secure here (laughs).

Nikki (41:38):

That's incredible (laughs).

Weston (41:41):

Yeah, that's awesome.

Nikki (41:42):

Truly, that's awesome (laughs).

M (41:44):

(laughs) Being able to, like, just ... I mean, it's uncomfortable, it was uncomfortable at first. But then it was just like, okay I guess I have to do this. And like, if I'm gonna do it-

Edward (41:50):

(laughs)

M (41:50):

... I might as well do it with Edward (laughs).

Weston (41:53):

Yeah, yeah. That's, what a good idea, to go on a breakup backpacking trip.

M (41:57):

Yeah.

Weston (41:57):

Yeah, really good.

M (41:59):

It was really great. Like, I couldn't be on my phone.

Edward (42:02):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M (42:02):

So it was like, what could I look at, the trees.

Edward (42:03):

(laughs)

M (42:03):

Actually I'm sick of the trees (laughs).

Nikki (42:03):

I could imagine, I was just about to say, I thought you didn't like 'em (laughs).

Edward (42:04):

She actually knows so many plants now (laughs).

Nikki (42:10):

(laughs)

Weston (42:10):

(laughs)

Edward (42:12):

[inaudible 00:42:12] Unwillingly.

M (42:13):

Unwillingly (laughs). It's been, like, scarred into my brain.

Edward (42:15):

(laughs) She'll- she'll send me a picture. She's like, "Is this a dogwood?" I was like, "Wow. You really just know ".

Nikki (42:21):

(laughs)

M (42:21):

I just wanna flex my skills in front of you.

Edward (42:24):

Yeah.

Nikki (42:24):

Incredible.

Edward (42:27):

I'm honestly impressed, 'cause she knew nothing freshman year (laughs).

M (42:28):

Yeah (laughs).

Edward (42:30):

How am I different than you imagined I would be when we first met? Uh, we, kind of, talked about that.

M (42:37):

That's a good question though. I feel like I imagined you to be a lot more ... When we first met I thought you were, like, mean (laughs).

Edward (42:43):

(laughs)

M (42:43):

So I was, like, I imagined you to be, like, a lot more, just, like, have more attitude towards people. But you actually are just, like, super kind and sweet. And, like, I don't know, I never think of you as actually having attitude. Like, you don't (laughs).

Edward (42:56):

(laughs)

M (42:57):

You're just a very kind, and sweet, loving person.

Edward (42:59):

Occasionally.

M (42:59):

(laughs)

Edward (43:02):

If someone crosses me (laughs) [inaudible 00:43:03]

M (43:02):

That's true. When we're in some spaces I'm like, oh my god I can't be with Edward right now.

Weston (43:07):

(laughs)

M (43:07):

Like, please, like, I'm walking away (laughs).

Nikki (43:08):

(laughs)

Edward (43:11):

But most of the time-

M (43:12):

Most of the time I'm, like, not like that. Could I ask the same question for me?

Weston (43:16):

Yeah.

M (43:17):

Yeah. Like, what-

Edward (43:18):

Oh. What did I think?

M (43:18):

Yeah.

Edward (43:20):

I mean, when I met you, you were a very different person (laughs).

M (43:22):

That's true (laughs).

Nikki (43:22):

(laughs)

Edward (43:25):

So I don't really know what I thought of you. I thought you shy.

M (43:29):

Yeah.

Edward (43:30):

Um.

M (43:30):

I've become less shy.

Edward (43:32):

Yeah.

Weston (43:32):

What was it like watching, uh, Miriam change over the years?

Edward (43:36):

I feel like, I don't know, I was just, like, trying to support you and understand that th- these are the stages you need to go through to grow as a person.

M (43:45):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Edward (43:45):

And, I don't know, I feel like I had a lot of fun (laughs) along all the stages. Yeah.

M (43:53):

It's funny 'cause, like, while I'm changing I, like, don't know that I'm changing. You know? Like, I'm, like, caught up in it.

Edward (43:58):

(laughs)

M (43:58):

And then, like, you're just, like, this person who's, like, seen it from afar-

Edward (44:02):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M (44:02):

... so, like, detailed.

Edward (44:04):

(laughs)

M (44:04):

It's, like, such a powerful place to be in, honestly (laughs).

Edward (44:06):

Yeah.

M (44:06):

You could have done so much (laughs).

Edward (44:10):

(laughs) Like what?

M (44:10):

I don't know (laughs).

Edward (44:10):

Manipulated you.

M (44:10):

Yeah, but you didn't.

Edward (44:10):

I mean, maybe I did (laughs).

M (44:10):

(laughs)

Nikki (44:10):

(laughs)

Edward (44:10):

Maybe the person you are today-

M (44:10):

If you had a chance to manipulate me I would like plants more, okay? (laughs)

Edward (44:22):

(laughs)

M (44:25):

Like, if you had any choice, like, I'd be like, [crosstalk 00:44:27] "Oh yeah, that's a Doug fur right there." (laughs)

Edward (44:30):

It is. No, that's a redwood actually (laughs).

Weston (44:31):

(laughs)

Edward (44:32):

Yeah. Which one of our experiences made you love me the most?

M (44:42):

Hmm. I feel like we did a bake off together at our college.

Edward (44:48):

I feel like we did.

M (44:51):

(laughs) I, well, okay. We did do a bake off together.

Edward (44:52):

(laughs) Yeah.

M (44:53):

It was, like, this, like, college bake off where you, like, had teams and, like, baked stuff.

Edward (44:58):

It was very stressful (laughs).

M (45:00):

It was so stressful. It was, like, literally the most stressful thing of, like, our whole college career (laughs).

Edward (45:03):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). It was spring, senior year. We were trying to, like, finish our thesis and-

M (45:08):

And, like, bake stuff every week (laughs). I don't know if that was necessarily what makes me love you the most, but, like, I feel like that sticks out-

Edward (45:16):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M (45:16):

... because it was just so stressful and so anxiety producing. And, like, you were so supportive through that that, like, I felt like after that we could get through anything together.

Edward (45:25):

Yeah (laughs)

M (45:25):

You know, like (laughs)-

Weston (45:27):

How did it, how'd the bake off go?

M (45:28):

We won.

Edward (45:28):

We won (laughs).

M (45:28):

We literally came in first place (laughs).

Nikki (45:33):

Oh my god.

Weston (45:33):

That's awesome.

M (45:33):

It was with, um, one of our other friends that we lived with senior year as well.

Edward (45:37):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). That was a whole saga (laughs).

M (45:40):

A whole saga. But we ended up winning so, like-

Edward (45:43):

Yeah. We never thought we would, though.

M (45:44):

Yeah.

Edward (45:44):

Every step of the way we were like-

M (45:46):

We're clowns (laughs).

Edward (45:46):

... why are we here? (laughs)

M (45:49):

We're gonna be, like, kicked out. Like, this is clownery.

Edward (45:51):

We were also, like, over it. We were like, we don't have time for this (laughs). We need to ...

Nikki (45:54):

(laughs)

M (45:56):

But I think, like, what draws us together is, like, how extra we can be-

Edward (46:01):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

M (46:01):

... like, all the time. And I think that's probably what, like, made us win.

Edward (46:05):

Yeah.

M (46:06):

Was just 'cause, like, Edward's, like, such a good, like, decorator. He has an eye for things. So, like, all of our tables were, like, elaborately decorated. And we had, like, really extra stories to describe, like, what, like, where all the dishes came from-

Edward (46:20):

(laughs)

M (46:21):

... and all these things (laughs), so yeah.

Edward (46:25):

Yeah. There was a lot of flour.

M (46:27):

Everywhere (laughs).

Edward (46:29):

[inaudible 00:46:29] like, clothes and-

M (46:30):

Yeah.

Edward (46:30):

yeah.

M (46:30):

(laughs)

Weston (46:33):

All right. That's our show. If you want to hear more from our story teller LB, he does drag under the name Lala Benet. You can follow him on Instagram @lalabenet. Visit our website at queermeetsqueer.com and follow us on Twitter and Instagram @queermeetsqueer. If you like what we got going on here at Queer Meets Queer leave us a five star rating and a review. These rating help people find us and make us more discoverable. They also mean the world to us, and it's a totally free way to support us.

Weston (47:06):

If you just can't get enough of this queer content, and I know that you can't, sign up for our Patreon to listen to our bonus episode series Sunday Brunch. Sunday Brunch episodes are super fun and filled with even more stories, extended interviews with our guests, and hilarious hot takes from Nikki, Justin, Seth, and myself.

Weston (47:26):

We release new bonus episodes twice a month and you can get access to them for just $5 a month. Check out patreon.com/queermeetsqueer for more details. Also, if you have a story to tell call our storytelling hotline at 503-512-9744 and leave a message. All right. That's all the announcements I have for you. Thanks so much for listening and we'll see you next time.